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02/18/2023 03:31 PM EST
Munich, Germany
Hotel Bayerischer Hof
MODERATOR: Good afternoon everyone. Please join me in welcoming three foreign ministers to talk about visions for Ukraine, the most important vision of which is peace. Annalena Baerbock – (applause) – Antony Blinken – (applause) – and of course, Mr. Kuleba – (applause) – wonderful to have you.
When we’re thinking about Ukraine, I think all of us want to think about a future Ukraine that is at peace, but how do we get there – and most importantly once we do get there – how do we ensure that Ukraine remains at peace because Russian aggression may return. So I’d like to start with you, Minister Baerbock, and ask you: How do you see the end of the war? What is – what are the steps that you think need to be achieved? And do you see this as potentially a negotiated solution at the end of the day, or will it – can it only be achieved through military victory by the Ukrainians?
FOREIGN MINISTER BAERBOCK: Well, in the end, there must be peace, and it has to be just and endurable, a peace. And there’s one easy way that this war will end and that we have peace again, and this is Russia stops bombing and just – Russia withdraws its troop. And we can do this tomorrow. If Russia decides to withdraw their own troops tomorrow, then we do have peace again, not only in Ukraine but peace around the whole world, because we see the negative effects.
And I think we have to be aware of three points on the path if Russia doesn’t take this decision. Russia – and we debated it within the last two days here also in Munich – is counting on that at some point we are too exhausted, and we as an international community – and would give in – and meaning that saying stop the fighting and stop the military support from other countries in the world. But what would that mean? Would that mean peace? No, because part of Ukraine, which is now still under the control of Russian would remain under the control of Russian. And those who are saying, “Just stop the hostilities right now and this is automatically peace,” this peace would mean that we would give those people of Ukraine towards Russia. And this would also mean that this is the end of the international order and the end of international law.
Because this is my second point – and I think the chancellor and also President Macron made that clear yesterday as well – if at this moment we would say Russia should just take part of Ukraine, then Russia would have won with a method that one aggressor can just conquer another country, and then it would be the end of the culture of the United Nation. And my third point I would like to make, because also in Germany, I think always around the world, people ask, “But if you wouldn’t have delivered weapons in the beginning, maybe there wouldn’t be so much fighting.”
I think we have to ask the question the opposite way around: If we wouldn’t have decided on the 27th of February in German parliament – or on the 24th around the world – to support Ukraine, there wouldn’t be 13 million refugees in Ukraine or outside of Ukraine – one million in Germany. The total population of Ukraine is 42 million people. If we wouldn’t have supported Ukraine since February 27th, then we would have seen Bucha, Mariupol, everywhere in the whole country.
So those of the people asking around the world: So what were the effects from the sanctions? What were the effects from the international support? The effect was that unfortunately we could not bring back peace to Ukraine because Russia still wants to destroy Ukraine, but we could save millions of people’s life, and that was worth every day. And we will save these life and protect these civilians every single day as long as Russia attacks Ukraine.
(Applause.)
Thank you.
MODERATOR: I want to bring you in, Mr. Blinken. Is – when we talk about peace, are we talking about Russia returning to February lines or are we talking about post-2014? Because Crimea is an issue that Ukrainians care a lot about. And I’m sure you’d like to comment on this, Minister Kuleba.
SECRETARY BLINKEN: Well, first let me say how wonderful it is to be here in Munich again, but especially wonderful to be surrounded by my two good friends and colleagues. Germany has been absolutely extraordinary in its leadership over the last year: the third largest donor to Ukraine in total, taking steps that I think few of us in this room would have imagined possible before the Russian aggression, and that’s due to the leadership of the chancellor and it’s due to the leadership of my friend Annalena Baerbock, who has been extraordinary from day one. We have been shoulder-to-shoulder from day one. And of course, Dmytro Kuleba has been the voice and the face in many ways of Ukraine around the world, not just with us but literally around the world, building support on every continent. And his own personal courage and the way he does his work on behalf of his country is extraordinary, so I thought it was important to acknowledge that as well as all of you.
Look, simply put, fundamentally these are decisions for our Ukrainian friends to make. This is their country, their future, their decision. I am, as usual, in violent agreement with everything that Annalena said. And I think we have to be wary of two things. First, we have to be very wary of this somehow false equivalence – and never lose sight of the fact that there is an aggressor and there is a victim. And we – the world should not in any way expect of Ukraine things on parallel with what we need to expect of Russia. As Annalena said, if Russia withdraws its troops today, the war is over. Of course, if Ukraine stops fighting today, Ukraine is over. And it’s as simple and basic as that.
Where this goes – as Annalena said, we will support the decisions of our Ukrainian friends about the future of their country. But I think we all have a profound stake in, as Annalena said, a just and durable peace. And what do we mean by that? Just in that any peace has to be consistent with the principles of the United Nations Charter. It is fundamentally against the interests of every other country around the world to wind up with a result that somehow vindicates the seizure by force of territory, that validates that. Because if we do that, we will open a Pandora’s box around the world, and every would-be aggressor will conclude that: If
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